OOC Chat

Hey gang, we're beyond character creation now, so I am starting up just a "normal" ooc chat thread.

This thread is for whatever idle chatter we have as players; could be speculative rules questions (rules questions relevant to active gameplay, I might prefer to resolve in the in character thread in which the rule is immediately relevant), or IRL life stuff - including plz let is know of any foreseeable, prolonged posting absences here - or other meta WoD or RPG stuff, etc.

Btw, regarding umbral travel related metaplot. Will we steering closer to M2 - travel is dangerous but pretty common, or will we going with the Revised Avatar Storms and the like, where traveling the Umbra is reeealy risky and potentially deadly? I guess same question applies to the overall tone - more hopeful Mage 2e or depressed Revised, where the war is over and nobody won? I kinda leaned into horror in the prelude, but if we're going into for a more lighter tone, i can even it out.

Also, are we still doing the whole spy thriller thing? Or just wing a more general type Mage chronicle and see where it takes us? I did fine the spy idea intriguing, but i'm not married to it, in case you had other ideas.

No more spy thriller.

I don't have a good enough grasp on how to portray or carry out the Reality War stuff, and don't think I can pull off that kind of high conflict plot.

We'll be dwelling more in the discovery and explorative space.

After we get through character Awakenings and things, I have a couple ideas for situations that will open us up to actual gameplay/dice rolling and stakes. But once those are over? I think we'll be done here, unless someone else wants to take over at that point.

Sorry, missed some posts this week, irl swallowed me whole. Will try to catch up tomorrow/on monday, finish with the prologues.

I have worked on typing up the backstory four times now over the past week or so, and every time I have I either get called away for a while or fall asleep, and my phone reloads so I lose what I had.

I'm going to type it in Notes then transfer it over. (Shit always has to be more difficult than needed, I swear.)

Yea that is standard procedure for me now, with long posts.

I lost too many hours on too many posts, retyping things because I drove into the area of a new tower, or switched wifis or battery dropped too low (and my saver settings classes all "non essential") or whatever.

If I don't have a post fully turned in my mind and the time to type it? I'm putting it in Notes and copy pasta

I've checked a few other games and it seems we are not the only concerned party regarding Ma's absence. Dude's in a lot of games and it seems like there haven't been any notice beforehand. I just hope everything is good and it's nothing serious.

So I think for the current scene we can maybe readjust it a little and introduce me and Theha's Dominic first and then have Ma's James be introduced later during the meeting after he's back.

Thanks for doing that leg work. That is pretty uncharacteristic for Ma, and indeed I hope all is well too.

As for the current/intro scene... I mean this whole scene and premise hinges on bringing Traditions and Techno together. So in order to keep things moving forward meaningfully, and without recon, I think at this time I'd prefer we just "background" Ma for now?

Their character is there, but since the player is not, the character is treated as an inconsequential NPC for now. Meaning we just don't have the benefit as players of his roleplay. James will be assumed to be interacting in small but insignificant ways as a low ranking Techno would, but we don't "zoom in" on it, or describe it., nor even zoom in on any interactions that would happen with him (like introductions, tho again it can be assumed to have happened, as it would). And instead focus on you two and the two "major" NPCs.

Then whenever Ma is able to return, his character knows everything that your characters know (the character was there), and he can provide us any intro/description/insights then, and just step more fully into the skin of James and have him emerge from the background into the spotlight in line and in the same "place" (narratively speaking) as you two, wherever we are at in play.

This is how I prefer to handle brief absences at irl games, and I would prefer it here too.

I mean, I don't see this scene lasting a particularly long time tho, and soon we'll be in the thick of it.

This could become a bigger hang up quite rapidly...

If it does, at that time we will retcon, and just say it's only you two and has always been only you two. And because that will have been the way it was played, it should be a pretty smooth retcon.

Sounds good to me. Ready to proceed. Hopefully it's not nothing serious with Ma and we're all worrying over nothing.

RE: the Manipulation+Alertness roll, and the stated goal(s) of the roll:So, I think it's important that we start off trying to be on the same page about the mechanics/rolls we're making.

And so, I feel like I need to bring up that I don't necessarily see Manipulation as an appropriate Attribute to pair with Alertness, and also that Alertness doesn't necessarily match up with what you're saying you want to achieve...

Alertness - for noticing actions or physical things that are hidden

Awareness - "6th sense"-stuff, for noticing the supernatural

Empathy - for noticing subtlties in how people are reacting or behaving, picking up on motives

Subterfuge - for noticing active deception attempts made against you

Sound correct?/Make sense?

And I feel like you're conflating two or maybe even three separate things into one check:
1. he wants to follow what's going on
2. wants to play it cool

And 3, he also maybe feels out of place, and like he has to play a part or manipulate people here into believing he belongs here?

RE: 1. if you're rolling the dice to follow what's going on, this sounds like Empathy to me. Success will reveal subtle social dynamics that you as a player don't pick up on and/or motives behind what is being said. If you want to be in tune with the other people, their motives and behavior, it's Empathy. Probably pairs with Wits, though could be Perception if you're focusing on body language. Or you could roll Subterfuge if you think you're actively being deceived, but no one has even really said anything to you yet. And/or/but, if you think someone is hiding... something material... a weapon, movements, whatever? Then that's Alertness. But never really is any of that going to be with Manipulation, which is used when you're acting to try to manipulate or deceive someone yourself, not when sensing or detecting manipulation.

RE: 2, playing it cool sounds like it could be Etiquette to me (paired with Wits? or Charisma?) - playing the part ,behaving appropriately in this situation, convincing others you belong. Or, conceivably... basically a Willpower roll - resisting fear/"brute force" composure/preventing yourself from panic. I don't like the latter here, because that should more be in response to an effect that I'm invoking upon you. So I go back to the former.

So...

Yea, this is a good microcosm for you guys to understand my personal understanding and implementation of the use of the Attributes and Abilities in 20th... There are defined boundaries to what Attribute and what Ability should be paired and when/in what situation.

Does this seem consistent with your own understandings, or at least does it sound fair?

Or do we need to talk about differences in understandings of mechanics before we get too deep?

Perception+Awareness to feel out any magics around or Perception+Alertness to notice it's physical manifestations - whether it is sigils painted on the wall or the ripples in the air caused by the active spells.
If he is trying to behave appropriately to the situation at hand - Wits+Etiquette

If he is nervous and trying to appear like he is not/trying to mask his emotional response - Manipulation+Subterfuge

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Just my two cents. Agree with the rest.

Completely agree that Manipulation+Alertness is an unusual pairing; the thinking was he's trying to read the rules and patterns of behaviour inherent in the ceremonial; hence, literally trying to pick up on the currents of, not simply current behaviour of those in the room, but a rough feel for the nature and structure of the meeting, and so a sense of any distinction between routine and exceptional subject matter. Hence, sensing by mundane means the factors impacting behaviour, and notable points in the flow of the meeting; so, that's why Manipulation +Alertness. (My first thought was Perception and Manipulation until I remembered that's two attributes!)
The kind of things I was hoping he might pick up on, if applicable;
- The nature of the truce or understanding between the Traditions and the Technocracy - any references to rules or protocols?
- What if any other matters come up, and whether those are routine or not?
- Suggestions as to current tensions w.r.t. the above?
With hindsight and deconstruction, I can see that some of that would fall under Empathy, and some of the rest might have been addressed by prior research IC; my bad for missing that opportunity.
Basically, I was trying to work out how the character might attempt to apply his abilities in the situation at hand.

No attempt to sense or use magick was intended; hence no mention of Awareness.

Quite reasonable that Dominic's own demeanour should be a separate roll if warranted. To try and be more specific, he is trying not to give anything away, rather than actively fit in. I would suggest Manipulation and Subterfuge is a reasonable combination for this, if there is any need to roll.

Am I right in assuming that I should in future explain my goals and agree stats to use before rolling? I'm used to other games where pre-emptive rolling to maintain momentum is generally a plus; but those are simpler, less social systems.

So I gave you a bunch of information RE: the nature of the truce in the first post. Here's a copy paste of that information: In summary: it's a tense truce.

That's the important part right?

And sure. There are rules and protocols. But... they're not important are they? Particularly because you guys are just gonna follow them, aren't you? You have to for the group to come together, right?

All of this is just a narrative artifice so that we can bring the group together in a plausible fashion, right? None of this scene really matters, beyond that.

It's a tense truce.

There are rules and protocols.

You follow the rules and protocols.

Let's move on to a place on the narrative where there is more interesting information and gameplay to zoom in on.

I'm not hiding anything from you guys in this scene or interaction. I'm just "bringing the group together". And introducing the first "adventure".

So again, just a bit of insight into my ST style there.
And I don't think there is a roll needed to "not give anything away". You don't really have anything to give away yet, and feeling/seeming out of place or out of your depth is rather inconsequential (if for no other reason than because it is assumed by the senior members) at this time :P

As for explaining your goals for future rolls...

I mean, I don't think that should be necessary most of the time?

However I say that based on an assumption that we all understand the system to work/rolls to be formed roughly the same. And so this has made me question my assumption in that regard.

How about:

If you're following one of the many pre-defined actions in the book that has a "RAW" roll defined for it, you don't need to add context.

However, if you're just making up your own roll, let's give the context you think is necessary, to understand why you put the roll together as you did.

Sounds good. Sorry to vex you!

I’m not sure what’s happened, but my character sheet suddenly seems blank.
Everything but the avatar, gone. Even the name was blank.
Thankfully, I have screenshots. It should take me a good half hour to recreate him later tomorrow as I have a copy of Majunior’s template in place to work from.

Keep backups, people!

Oh no! I'm sorry that happened, that sucks

Check the staging version of the site, it might have the sheet saved. I remember that problem mention, I'll try to locate that thread later today. It mention the problem, how to avoid and where to try and restore the sheet (staging).

Here's the thread about it: https://gamersplane.com/forums/thread/37763/

And the link to staging: https://staging.gamersplane.com

My vote is to move on to the next scene. Doesn't seem much left to do in this one. The guys can chat, plan, get to know each other, etc in the next. If we move on, should we continue with that in the chapter one thread or will you make a new one?

I think the bigger question is what to do with MJ's James. Do you want to NPC him for a bit? Phase him out? Or do a soft tag along, where he is with us, just not the most talkative or active type and follows our lead?

John's plan for the most part would be "go and check it out, maybe do some research on the way".

I'm pretty concerned about MaJ. Don't know if anyone has heard anything but I've gamed with him before and never seen anything like this disappearance... As for his character, I'd like to have him tag along still. There, but not there.

Basically until that's just not tenable anymore (i.e. up until it just makes no sense that he's not doing anything/up until we're, like, there on-site and stuff's happening).

Which... is coming quick, frankly, but maybe not quite here yet.

And we'll continue the narrative in the same thread, whether we remain in this scene for a bit more, or if we move away to another location and time.