AI in PbP

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Jul 25, 2025 2:04 am
On a phone, en- and em-dashes are easy. (So why didn’t I call them en and emdashes?)

Weird that AI would use an em-dash instead of a hyphen. An en-dash would make sense. APA 7th edition standards require an en-dash for page ranges and other numerical ranges (which sucks, since I can’t type an en-dash on my work laptop, so I have to copy-paste an en-dash).
Aug 4, 2025 12:51 pm
I play TTRPGs to experience co-creating adventure experiences with other humans, not with an AI. I will not willingly interact with a game where AI has been a part of it in any way.
Aug 4, 2025 1:58 pm
Le gasp!

Not even Spell Check?!
Aug 4, 2025 3:47 pm
What's wrong with the regular spell checker in browser/office writer?
Aug 4, 2025 3:53 pm
Nothing at all. They frequently use AI, and have since like the 90s
Aug 4, 2025 4:02 pm
I have a browser extension that replaces -- with – and --- with — so I occasionally get flagged as AI in stuff I wrote myself. Fortunately, I'm not still in school or in a field that has to submit academic papers. I usually turn it off for GP just in case.
Aug 4, 2025 5:19 pm
Wanted to write "can you really call those spell checking algorithms AI?" but looking at the wiki article for AI, i guess it does fit. Though i still associate the word with sentience first and foremost, rather than just machines doing "smart" tasks.
Aug 4, 2025 5:23 pm
reversia.ch says:
Wanted to write "can you really call those spell checking algorithms AI?" but looking at the wiki article for AI, i guess it does fit. Though i still associate the word with sentience first and foremost, rather than just machines doing "smart" tasks.
I get it. I work with a lot of deep/machine learning, so I'm always surprised at finding out some tasks utilize it. It's not quite the same as the recently sensationalized "Generative AI", but it's AI all the same.
Aug 4, 2025 5:26 pm
If you listen to music or have seen a movie in the last 25 years, congrats - you just consumed media produced in part by generative AI. Every song you love, every movie you like, every bit of media you consume made since 1990. All of it has used AI.

Its not like it suddenly happened. Its been here longer than I have.

You must use it. Get used to it. Become comfortable with it. You would be a fool not to. Early adopters at least have some say in how it develops.

This is the future.
Last edited August 4, 2025 5:31 pm
Aug 4, 2025 7:52 pm
But do these generative robots help create art or just products? I think that's the unpleasant feeling folks are feeling. The "uncanny valley" of art of sorts. Like when people chose vinyl and hardcovers instead of digital alternatives. Though i suppose that's more medium than the contents.
Aug 4, 2025 8:17 pm
They do create anything. They hallucinate and regurgitate information based on prompting. The more restrictive and specific the prompt, the more clarity and cohesion the machine will produce.

Yes, produce.

It is the people who allow the machine to be a composer that find the uncanny valley material. Because ultimately the machine does not understand beauty or music.

I use some generative AI to make music. But I compose it, and I perform it. The AI is there to crunch the near infinite number of permutations to rearrange it. Then when preproduction is complete, I record it again, sing the part and master the sound. The AI is an amenuensis.

Wrath of the Ancient

Laguz

One of these songs was produced with a band the old fashioned way. Handfuls of psychedelic mushrooms and months of trial and error. The other is just me a flute and an AI.

Can you hear the difference?
Aug 8, 2025 3:00 am
The amount of equivocating on the meaning of the phrase "AI" in this thread is staggering. 'AI' can mean like a hundred different things, some of which are unproblematic, others of which SUCK. For example, expert systems using formal logic to parse data have been around since the 1970s at least; these are largely unproblematic. AI systems that supplant human critical thinking and creativity at broad, societal levels, on the other hand, are incredibly harmful. The latter kind of AI has NOT been around since 1990; it is relatively recent. And no one who objects to AI is referring to the former.

So y'all will have a lot more success in your arguments if you define your terms, stop equivocating, and thereby identify the actual points of disagreement among you, if there are any.

This message has been brought to you by your local philosophy professor who teaches critical thinking for a living.
Aug 8, 2025 3:15 am
Um, actually, The Google tells me that Generative AI has been around since the 60s.

Boing FWIP!
Aug 8, 2025 3:36 am
"Generative AI" has the same problems as "AI" And, while we're at it, "AGI." Poorly defined terms with different senses for different folks and contexts.

Oh and by the way, if you want to see what the early forms of "generative AI" were, go try ELIZA, the first chatbot. It is... NOT really AI in any significant way. It's no more AI than an Infocom game is.

Go try ELIZA for yourself and see how 'good' an AI therapist it is.

And while you're at it, go play ZORK I.
Last edited August 8, 2025 3:37 am
Aug 8, 2025 4:53 am
Mmmmm, Zork.
Aug 8, 2025 5:15 am
Drgwen says:
The amount of equivocating on the meaning of the phrase "AI" in this thread is staggering. 'AI' can mean like a hundred different things, some of which are unproblematic, others of which SUCK. For example, expert systems using formal logic to parse data have been around since the 1970s at least; these are largely unproblematic. AI systems that supplant human critical thinking and creativity at broad, societal levels, on the other hand, are incredibly harmful. The latter kind of AI has NOT been around since 1990; it is relatively recent. And no one who objects to AI is referring to the former.

So y'all will have a lot more success in your arguments if you define your terms, stop equivocating, and thereby identify the actual points of disagreement among you, if there are any.

This message has been brought to you by your local philosophy professor who teaches critical thinking for a living.
This is astute and I am here for it.

I will clarify.

All visual and audible media in the mainstream uses AI to produce content. It has since the early 90's. The aversion to AI generated content that makes the user "feel nothing" is certainly possible. However, it is also extremely unlikely. As music producers and movie producers have a market based on manipulating emotions.

Algorithmic production of music has existed since Mozart's Musikalisches Würfelspiel.

But in the modern Mainstream Boston's Tom Scholz created much of the hardware and underlying theory which makes sound mastering possible.

While he didn't use machine intelligence to do this, he did use maths. The machines he made use these maths to make the job faster than humans can. In short: The future is now. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle. Adaptation is evolution. The best way to get ahead of malignant use of maths, is to learn more maths.

Len

Aug 8, 2025 6:18 am
Jomsviking, I plugged in this conversation into Gemini 2.5 Pro and asked it to summarize the logical and rhetorical fallacies you've made so far in this argument. I have included it below, and hope it is useful to you:
[ +- ] Your Fallacies
Aug 8, 2025 7:49 am
Awesome!
Quote:

Narrow AI as a Tool: This includes specific algorithms and hardware used for tasks like sound mastering, audio effects, or digital editing. These tools have indeed been used in media production for decades. They are assistants that execute a pre-programmed function.

Modern Generative AI: This refers to large-scale models (like LLMs or image generators) that learn from vast datasets and can generate entirely new content that simulates human creativity. This technology is recent and is the actual source of the current debate and anxiety.
It agrees with my assertion.
Quote:


Jomsviking presents a false dichotomy: either you are an "early adopter" who embraces the future, or you are a "fool" who will be left behind. This black-and-white framing ignores the vast middle ground where the real conversation is happening—discussing ethics, regulation, artistic integrity, and the appropriate use of these new technologies.

He argues against a straw man—a caricature of his opponents. He implies that people who are hesitant about AI are rejecting all forms of digital assistance in art. In reality, as Drgwen points out, the concern is not about mastering plugins; it's about AI that "supplants human critical thinking and creativity at broad, societal levels." Jomsviking ignores this nuanced position and argues against a much weaker one.
Adapt or die is the most critical thought. Also proven by the last ~50,000 years of human evolution.
Quote:

His rhetoric is heavy with an appeal to inevitability. Phrases like "This is the future," "The genie cannot be put back in the bottle," and "Adaptation is evolution" are used to shut down debate. This tactic suggests that because the technology's arrival is unstoppable, any critical discussion of its downsides or how it should be managed is pointless. It's a way to avoid engaging with the substance of the criticisms.
Thats because its currently being reality cannot be debated. It is already here. The downsides of falling behind the use of a tool are far more severe than that tool being abused.
Quote:

He generalizes his own specific, controlled use of AI as an "amanuensis" (a scribe) to the entire field. Just because he uses AI as a tool to augment his own composition doesn't mean that's how everyone will use it, nor does it address the problems that arise when AI is used to replace human creativity entirely.
It lost the plot. I claimed my way is the superior use of the tool. It also asserts that AI can replace human creativity, which is preposterous. AI will never be able to do that since it requires human interface to produce anything.

It is not a general intelligence, which is an unrelated topic.

I will now need you to provide citation that it is harmful. You may use an AI(and probably will) to answer this. In the process you will learn and I will learn and if harm is done it will still be a net gain on account of all of us learning.
Last edited August 8, 2025 8:03 am
Aug 8, 2025 5:08 pm
Quote:
I will now need you to provide citation that it is harmful.
This is the "shifting the goalposts" fallacy. If you’d like me to provide you a complete accounting of your fallacies, I have hourly rates.

PS You’re the kind of guy who’d unironically choose Clippy as your Warlock patron, ain’t ya?
Aug 8, 2025 5:24 pm
Drgwen says:
[quote]PS You’re the kind of guy who’d unironically choose Clippy as your Warlock patron, ain’t ya?
99% sure that is just a Great Old One right?
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