Who let the frogs out? (OOC)

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Oct 14, 2025 5:56 am
Drgwen says:
Like, they made it clear in no uncertain terms how much of a red line that would be crossing and Emma would literally hate Persephone forever and I think that would ruin the game. So…. I’m not sure what to do here.
Complete the job.

It wasn't 'hate', or 'forever'. It's more like that Emma wouldn't be able to be her friend as long as Pers keeps working for a demon, and actively tempts people to sign away their souls. But that is IF she finds out about it. She doesn't have to know. And they could still keep on working together even if she is aware of what Pers is up too.

But if this is still disruptive to the game, I can maybe change Emma's perspective on this? It's not like Pers is truly evil, right? Every person that signs his name over the dotted line knows exactly what he is agreeing to. Pers isn't coercing anyone. Just presenting them with an option. And if an opportunity is all it takes for someone to sell his soul, maybe they always belonged in hell to begin with?
Oct 14, 2025 1:08 pm
Drgwen says:
... so sleeping with Viv as a demon, which clearly enhances her openness to demons, after all, would count? ...
How? You have not convinced her to take meaningful action for your Dark Parton.

Remember the specific wording:
playbook says:
Trigger: When you convince someone to meaningfully act in your patron's interests, mark corruption.
You need to convince them and they need to do something meaningful for your Dark Patron, though they don't need to be conscious of this. Viv has done nothing for them.
Drgwen says:
... It’s a step toward the goal here. ...
A step you are taking, Viv is being led, she is not taking any action that furthers your Dark Patron's interests.
Viv is the goal. I would not think that her signing the contract would even count, but we may need to look at that when that happens. Anything Viv does after that would be of her own volition... unless you are the one convincing her to act?
Drgwen says:
... What’s odd is that the Tainted has the "jobs" element that works for strings, but then any time you do one you also mark corruption? That seems weirdly redundant. ...
I don't think you are supposed to get Corruption for doing your Jobs, but also remember that not all the available jobs involve getting people to do anything, so that may be a quirk of one of the Jobs you chose?

But I don't think getting someone to sign a contract counts as getting someone to meaningfully act in your patron's interests.

When your 'investor' convinced your business partners to scam you out of all your money so you were desperate enough to sign on with them ... that was them getting someone to act meaningfully on your Dark Parton's behalf, they got Corruption for that...

Wait, was that a secret? Oops.

Getting you to sign was the Job, that does not feel like it would count for their Corruption. (Morally the Jobs should Corrupt you... but what does and does not Corrupt is a bit weird in the rules, so we follow the rules.)
Drgwen says:
... because I just have no idea what its interests are apart from the jobs I’m given. ...
We can assume 'basic demonic stuff'. It wants souls, and it wants workers manipulated into working for it... It's a demon.

It also sent you to London because of the current events with the weather and apparently the faeries, so we can assume Viv has some specific value in that regard. But you don't know if it would want you to combat or aid the faeries... we shall have to see how it plays out.
Drgwen says:
... So if I don’t wanna do a job… that whole part of my playbook (jobs and the strings it earns me, as well as the playbook specific corruption mechanic) are unavailable. ...
Um... yeah? If you choose not to engage with a major aspect of your Playbook, then that part is not going to see much play.

We would need to talk about what you could still do, in that case. If you don't do the Jobs then your Dark Patron will not keep providing for you... at a minimum, you would need to change Playbooks, presumably, or pay the price.

The game does not work well if we choose to avoid major parts of the Playbooks, though.
Drgwen says:
... I’m hesitant to complete my patron’s jobs because of how strongly Delirium responded ...
As suggested: Don't tell Emma. Maybe also don't tell Circe? You may have to suffer alone?

If Emma ever finds out and has a problem we will need to deal with it, but I do expect the players to do their best to make the characters work, so Emma would either need to find a way to work with her distaste or get excluded from what is happening, but it is also your responsibility to keep secret from your friends that which your friends can't cope with knowing.

Finish the Job. Your Dark Patron may be becoming impatient. Persephone, maybe, got the impression that something almost stepped in and took over this morning, and only her own will kept things in her own hands? If she does not act, someone else might end up finishing the Job and she may lose face?
Oct 14, 2025 1:10 pm
Drgwen says:
And I’ll be honest — I’m hesitant to complete my patron’s jobs because of how strongly Delirium responded to the very possibility of my doing so. Like, they made it clear in no uncertain terms how much of a red line that would be crossing and Emma would literally hate Persephone forever and I think that would ruin the game. So…. I’m not sure what to do here.
I wasn't here for that so take this with a grain of salt, but that sounds like something that could be potentially game-breaking and should be addressed.
Oct 14, 2025 4:46 pm
Ok as @vagueGM and @Delirium have suggested, Pers will finish the job, but yeah — she’s gonna keep it to herself. She tried sharing and it did not go well all around. Well, except with Viv, who was into it? I’m guessing my Patron had access to her browsing history and figured this pairing would world for just that reason…

And yeah, I don’t plan to avoid half the playbook! I just don’t want to generate any game-breaking conflict between pers and Emma, but I’ll trust @Delirium not to kill the game because I am playing the Jobs part of my playbook.
Oct 14, 2025 5:13 pm
vagueGM says:

You can start working on that in the fiction, finding people to turn and such, then you can solidify your control, out from the fiction into the mechanics with this Advance, if you take the Advance before it is supported in the fiction then we need to quickly work with the fiction to make it true, either direction works. You can even gain a wolfpack without taking the Advance, if you do it in the fiction then we add it to your sheet, but I still recommend taking the Advance else you can just as easily lose it through fiction (that which your sheets gives you is less likely to be taken away).
Yeah, it's definitely on Max's very busy agenda, as she's already realized that her territory is too big to manage by herself. When she has time, she's already planning to mark soldiers both within her organization and within her wider territory and offer to bite them and make them werewolves.

Do we ever do timeskips in this game? I could definitely role-play biting a few people, but getting an entire pack seems like something that would be better handled with a timeskip.
Oct 15, 2025 7:33 am
Drgwen says:
... I’m guessing my Patron had access to her browsing history and figured this pairing would world for just that reason…
...
Given that they are expert at manipulation, I have been working under the assumption that you are perfectly suited to do this Job. Collecting Winter's soul may have been as a lesson or punishment, anyone could have done that —though maybe not as well— but bringing in new people is important, and you don't get a second chance, so you may have been carefully selected.
Oct 15, 2025 7:35 am
Morphling says:
... realized that her territory is too big ...
Possibly we should not have ignored the rules that set it at 'a block or two'... but having a slightly diluted level of control over a larger neighbourhood —and needing more wolves to control it— seems an interesting way to go.
Morphling says:
... she's already planning to mark soldiers both within her organization and within her wider territory and offer to bite them and make them werewolves. ...
Do you have a network of 'soldiers' already? People you worked with in the past as a drug dealer, maybe?
Morphling says:
... Do we ever do timeskips in this game? ...
So far that has not happened. We almost did twice, but the timing was never right. So I would not bargain on it, we may have to find a way for you to turn more wolves in the timeframe we have. It is an exponential growth curve, so you can start small and it can, very quickly, get out of hand... both in terms of numbers and in terms of control.
Oct 15, 2025 4:07 pm
Just so I can follow along at home... who is Jacob? And did Benji know they were transporting fae frogs? And is the fae plan *really* to make all of London a frog-friendly bog/pond with all this rain, and then bring in an invasive species of fae-frogs?
Oct 15, 2025 4:16 pm
vagueGM says:
Do you have a network of 'soldiers' already? People you worked with in the past as a drug dealer, maybe?
Yes, people she's worked with in the past and people she works with currently. As established before she's in control of the drug trade in her territory... or at least she's taking steps to consolidate her control. Given that 'crime' is still one of her territories troubles I don't think it would be fair to state that her control is absolute, but she's definitely actively attempting to expand her organization and either drive out other criminals or bring them under heel.
Oct 15, 2025 4:19 pm
Jacob was a demon PC of a player who left the game a long back. Emma had some short interaction with him (he got her into trouble at the party in Arundel, and she resents him for it). He skipped town, and left Benji his magical white raven. Emma doesn't know anything about frogs.
Oct 15, 2025 7:24 pm
What? OH! I thought the white raven came from Elliott! My bad.
Oct 15, 2025 9:02 pm
Drgwen says:
Just so I can follow along at home... who is Jacob? And did Benji know they were transporting fae frogs?
Yeah, Jacob was a previous PC (the Imp). He left Benji the raven to look after (the raven was part of the loophole Jacob used to escape hell and is secretly a transformed faerie knight, although Benji doesn’t know that). Jacob also owned a bookshop near Yasmine’s and a magical pond suddenly appeared in the middle of it after Jacob ‘left the city’. Benji rescued a frog from the pond (not wanting it to be trapped inside where it might starve) and took it to St James Park. He didn’t know the frog had anything to do with the fae at the time.
Oct 15, 2025 9:14 pm
This is an odd plot! (that's not a criticism, mind you)
Oct 16, 2025 2:52 am
Drgwen says:
This is an odd plot! (that's not a criticism, mind you)
Hey, don't look at me! I didn't bring the frogs into it. :)

Jacob ended up in faerie-land by Escaping a Situation (caught red-handed breaking and entering) though a magic door [ref].

The location they escaped from (also not chosen by me:) looked like this: [streetview], which put them in faerie-land.

They came back through a portal in the form of a pond, but rolled a 1... so the pond-portal remains in Jacob's shop/sanctuary ... along with its connection to faerie.

We lost Jacob (busy player) at the same time, so Benji took over management.

Benji then decided to take a frog from the faerie pond and deposit it in the ecosystem at St James Park. And here we are.
Drgwen says:
... And did Benji know they were transporting fae frogs? ...
Nope. He just likes animals.
Drgwen says:
... And is the fae plan *really* to make all of London a frog-friendly bog/pond with all this rain, and then bring in an invasive species of fae-frogs?
Somehow I doubt that is the entirety of their plan. Maybe frogs are larval their forms? Maybe they are just frogs... but from faerie? Maybe... I don't know, I just work here...

From what we have seen about the faeries:
  • We know the rain is somehow benefiting them. [origin]
    • This might be to do with people's emotional state?
  • We know that water is sometimes a medium for moving from one world to another.
    • Maybe the rain is to help them come through?
  • We don't know their intent.
    • Some think they are a threat. (Mainly those in power?)
    • Some think they are here to save us. (Possibly delusional hippy-types?)
    • We don't know what the other members of Wild think, they are alien and hard to understand.
Oct 16, 2025 2:59 am
Morphling says:
vagueGM says:
Do you have a network of 'soldiers' already? People you worked with in the past as a drug dealer, maybe?
Yes, people she's worked with in the past and people she works with currently. ...
Cool. You can tell us about them, whenever they come up or are relevant.

If they know about the supernatural (in a significant way) they may be Mortalis, else they are mere mortals. If any are Mortalis then you can use Moves and Debts and such with them.
Morphling says:
... As established before she's in control of the drug trade in her territory... ...
Well, as established, she is only partially 'in control', there is also, at least, Jack the Merc [ref] as competition.
Morphling says:
... actively attempting to expand her organization and either drive out other criminals or bring them under heel. ...
And do we think turning them into wolves is part of that 'bringing them to heel'? Is that voluntary or forced-conscription? (You were not given a choice, after all.)

When you think Max would take the steps, we can work on giving you scenes where you can try turning people.

One wonders about Circe, the werewolf groupie...
Oct 16, 2025 3:03 am
oopsylon says:
(in RP) ... He thought he’d told both of them about walking out of the hellhound’s lair ...

... "... there is a coven of feral vampires between here and there—dozens of them, ..." ...
Does Benji mention the prisoners, or the 'hunters' he has agreed to take down there?

If it comes up Max may have heard about missing people, or might even know about Frank and Ernie.
Oct 16, 2025 3:07 am
Drgwen says:
(in RP) ... Then, turning to Max, Persephone says angrily, "Even if scaredy-drac here won't go, I will. And I can protect myself just fine, thanks."
We might want to have Persephone realise she can't actually protect herself... and do that before she goes down there and needs to. She needs to make amends with her Dark Patron before she can get her abilities back.
Oct 16, 2025 3:21 am
vagueGM says:

Does Benji mention the prisoners, or the 'hunters' he has agreed to take down there?
He will if the conversation does not move on too quickly! I was trying to avoid info-dumping too much because there was a lot to say and respond to.
Oct 16, 2025 6:07 am
vagueGM says:
Drgwen says:
(in RP) ... Then, turning to Max, Persephone says angrily, "Even if scaredy-drac here won't go, I will. And I can protect myself just fine, thanks."
We might want to have Persephone realise she can't actually protect herself... and do that before she goes down there and needs to. She needs to make amends with her Dark Patron before she can get her abilities back.
110%!! She's just mouthing off. I mostly was pleased with myself for coming up with 'scaredy-drac' lol

Also, feel free to turn Circe if you wish, Max/ @morphling ! It could be fun. We could kinda share her as an NPC.

Also, does Benji *know* the puddle in the bookstore is a portal?
Oct 16, 2025 6:08 am
Oh obviously he doesn't. (adding this correction here rather than editing)
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