Interest Checks - World of Darkness

So now that we have a Werewolf game going on GP as well, how about some fluff talk?

What are your favourite Vampire Clan/Bloodlines? Which ones are your least favourite? Why?

Best: Tzimisce. The only thing better than Vicissitude is what Alex Mercer can do. Plus, the dangerous-but-hospitable territorial fiend is a cool archetype. As is all the weirdness from things like path of metamorphosis and inhumanly beautiful forms.

Honourable mention: Kiasyd. Fun æsthetics, cool archetype (that got hijacked by Beckett in Bloodlines to great success), interesting (though not as cool) signature discipline.

Worst: probably Samedi. A disproportionally bad clan flaw, no interesting schticks, and a dubiously 'balancing' signature discipline.

Tremere is my favorite. I like the sorcerer's approach to vampireisme

I never really found the appeal for clan Malkavian

Best:
Setite. The most socialite clan in my opinion.

Honourable mentions:
Tzimisce. Unbound possibilities, dark aesthetics.
Assamites. Only after they got their full background, then the mages were great.

Worst:
Ventrue. The most boring clan ever written.
Toreador. The second most boring clan.
Tremere. The most annoying clan.

Favorite: Lasombra - To me they personify the darkness of WoD (see what I did there) but more importantly the politicking.

My least favorite would be: Giovanni - I just never got the appeal or the attention they get.

My favorites are--

True Brujah the mechanics don't do it justice, but the idea of Temporis is amazing and the story elements of Carthage are on point

Tremere sorcery (duh)

Baal not as a player- but demon worshipping vampires so evil that even other Sabbat consider them kill of sight is killer for antagonists

Worst-- Malkavian just a group destroyer waiting to happen, but Giovanni ad Lasambra I find kinda dull

Giovanni.

First, they're Independent - yet respected. The Cam sucks so hard, being independent is awesome.

Second, the necromancy stuff is just great. Thematically, it's right up my 90s kid/Type O Negative-loving alley. And mechanically, it's quite powerful, in a subtle political/social/Masquerade-y way (i.e. not just raw magic eff-you power, like, yawn those short-sighted Tremere).

Third, the clan curse is great too! Old school monstrous vampire. Whoever in the annals of history first decided that humans should moan and writhe when they're bitten by a vampire is why we have Twilight today.

Fourth, just don't look too closely at the incest stuff!

Perfect.

I think people's choices of Background dots says more about them lol

Love my little Bhaja vampires, the Nagaraja!

One thing I did like about V5 was making all the necromancers join their own family as the Hecata. One day I should do a campaign where the players have to get everyone together so the group forms with (minimum) bloodshed.

Ooo really? My group played, like, 3 sessions of V5 back in the day right before COVID hit, but I never dived deep enough to learn that.

What happened?

The Gios get wiped out in the Inquisition?

More they all merge together after Daddy Giovanni get chomped by in the Shadowlands and a peace treaty between the Giovanni and the Camarilla running out. So it's half a dozen bloodlines in a trenchcoat pretending to be a clan!

This "family reunion" plot is one of the dumb changes V5 brought. Harbingers joining hands with Giovanni and Infitiores? Yeah, I don't think so. Centuries if not millennia of hate erased by what? That Second Inquisition nonsense? No thanks. And why are Samedi and Nagaraja even there? Not to mention the long gone Lamia. Sigh.

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As for the Clans, the ones that resonate are:

Ravnos - the endless vagabond in search of a reality he can never reach.

Gangrel - a primal descent, wondering the last vestiges of purity (plus a much more interesting tale of transhumanism than "look at all the tentacles I've put on my head" Tzimisce).

Malkavian - longing for the knowledge that you know will drive you madder.

Tremere - not for the Magic(k)s, but for the much hated (for some reason) Pyramid and an academic bend.

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The ones that do not resonate:

Brujah - losing your cool all the time? No thanks. Plus two narratively poor, physical Disciplines.

Nosferatu and Samedi - ew. Just ew.

Lhiannan - so, just sitting in the forest all the time. An exciting chronicle that will be.

I always read it as the Harbringers just biding their time. With the beckoning and the Sabbat running around the Middle East, they have no real safe harbour. So, where better than the house of your enemy whilst you plot their true downfall? I'll admit that the Lamia and Nagaraja are a stretch but I have a soft spot for 'em so I (personally) give them a pass!

Beckoning.. stuff aside, did they need a safe harbor? They sided with the Sabbat because the Cam royally screwed them back in the day by allowing the Giovannis to hunt them down unabated. It's the family and the Camarilla who are afraid of the Harbingers, not the other way around.

One potential way to spin a similar sort of story is to lean on the post-Maelstrom metaplot and the ideas/rules for Harbinger "neonates" presented in "Lore of the Bloodlines"; with the Harbingers taking over the Giovanni holdings, converting or destroying the family members. Maybe even resurrecting the Lamia somehow.

So I've recently properly finished reading "Montreal by Night" and it was.. quite an experience, certainly not something Paradox execs would dare to dip their toes in now. There wasn't that much.. unwholesomeness, but stuff that was there stood out tall and bright. With that in mind..

What's your take on "Black Dog" books? Sad to see them go or glad the new regime did not resurrect the infamous imprint? What were your favourite/least favourite books from the series?

The glory days of White Wolf were marked by being an edgy, transgressive, public panic inducing company. With books that are sold in black bags, and court procedings where people blame the game for their own misdeeds, to Jack Chick's delight. They rocked the boat of society and stood proud.

The current régime are not as brave as White Wolf's legacy deserves and are more afraid of public backlash. Whether or not one likes the new WW, it certainly is not faithful to its roots.

The Book of Nod was a bizarre and inspiring book under the Black Dog label. Only one I had

Whoever wrote the Fomori book should get therapy, the really expensive kind.

I'm curious - has anyone actually tried to run their players or achieve with their own characters the "higher states" of being in WoD - Golconda, Ascension, uhh.. wraiths had something like as well, I think? What did the process entail? How long did it take? Was it actually fulfilling? Did the character act after achieving this feat or was it their peak and an ending to their journey?

I haven't - at first I was a novice GM such a deep investment needing a stable and serious long-term narrative was unthinkable, and then I drifted away from WoD, but I still find the idea intriguing, particularly Ascension/Archmagedom, and maybe the Archmagedom of Awakening. I know too little of Wraith and it has an approachability issue. I'd be curious about ascended Tiger-Demons and maybe high-tier Solars in Exalted though.

Those campaign goals feel so mythic, epic, and unachievable, much like the stereotypical zero-to-demigod campaigns that sometimes get planned but never seem to reach the goal (partially because campaigns risk ending prematurely, partially because some GMs often go 'not yet, better add more filler before letting big changes happen in the narrative). Which I find highly unfortunate, as I have played other settings where the PCs started achieved similarly ambitious goals after long long narratives of overcoming challenges one step at a time.

It's a question I've asked myself periodically through many campaigns. Truth is, I can't think of way to make it interesting in the shared meat space -- as in, what would the players be doing in this? "I roll for my PC to meditate on their existential dilemma inherent in being a perfectly designed predator who wants to transcend the need for everything that makes them so perfect."

"Okay, you meditate for thirty years and order a couple treatises on eBay. Roll Self Control, difficulty 10."

Or would they have to travel the world, chasing red herrings until they investigate the few legitimate instances of actual success? That could be a good campaign arc, but only if the players were REALLY interested in achieving this.