Knave & PbP Implementation

Sep 8, 2022 8:52 pm
The Game System
We will be using the Knave SRD which is the stripped down essentials of Ben Milton's Knave.

The reason I'm using the SRD is because much of the original Knave game contains tables and such that don't directly relate to the start of this game. So, it is the collection of rules and guidelines, rather than an assortment of tables, that are key for our game.

Rules Modifications for PbP
All things dealing with Character Creation will be addressed in a separate thread.

I'll call for all Saving Throws. This way there is minimal confusion between the need to assume a Saving Throw or an Opposed Save, etc.

I'll do "GM rolls" like Reaction Rolls in secret. Also, if your PC wouldn't know whether or not they succeeded then I will also roll in secret. For example, attempting to hide.

When needed, I'll roll Initiative for everyone for the entire game. Considering it is a simple d6 roll then it shouldn't be an issue. Whomever posts first on the "PC's turn" goes, well. . .first, as Initiative only instructs which "side" goes first.

Advancement will be handled in the Character Creation thread, but will basically be akin to "Milestone" advancement as we progress through our tale and should relate to the character's performance throughout the game.

In Combat PC's will roll for their own attacks (1d20 + STR or WIS Bonus vs Enemy Armor Defense) and PC's will also roll to defend using the optional rule in the core rules set of Knave. This would be 1d20 + Armor Bonus vs Attacker's Ability Defense.

We will use typical Advantage and Disadvantage for significant adjustments to difficulty or ease with certain checks. However, Advantage in Combat will still be treated separate and will function as outlined in the SRD or the core game.

~Consider this a "living document" that may be tweaked or altered as we play to better suit our needs.~
Sep 8, 2022 9:23 pm
https://i.imgur.com/S4oU3eg.jpg


How are you handling spells?
Last edited September 8, 2022 9:27 pm
Sep 8, 2022 11:31 pm
Spells, and magic of that sort, when encountered will be dealt with primarily as outlined in Knave (the full game). Basically a PC will be able to cast spells of their level or less. Some spells may also use the level-less approach outlined in Knave.

To start with, our PCs haven't really encountered magic much, not perhaps beyond some sort of mild tribal shamanism. Or, at least that's what I was thinking. But. . .there will be magic to encountered, use, et cetera as we move along.
Sep 9, 2022 12:01 am
Sounds good!
Sep 9, 2022 7:53 am
I don't really get the attacking part.

Do you roll to hit vs AC?
Or does the target roll defense bonus vs attackers ability?

Or both, like a save after to hit (in which case most attacks will miss for sure)
Sep 9, 2022 11:33 am
This game uses the word "Defense" for both: "Armor Class +Modifier" and "Ability Score +Modifier". And the word "Bonus" in place of Modifier. Both Abilities and Armor have a "Bonus".

Instead of receiving a Modifier based on your ability score. This game calculated it in reverse. You receive an Ability Defense based on your Bonus... (Bonus +10=Defense) (for both Abilities and Armor)

Melee Attacks to Hit:
Yes, roll 1d20 and add your Strength Bonus vs a Monsters AC.
Missile Attacks to Hit:
Add Wisdom Bonus.

Save Checks:

Roll Strength save: 1d20(+Bonus) vs 15 to break a door. Greater than 15 Succeeds.

Roll Intelligence vs opponent Dexterity: 1d20+ Int Bonus vs opp Dex Defense (10+Bonus)
OR
Opponent rolls 1d20+ Dex Bonus vs your Int Defense (10+Bonus)
Last edited September 9, 2022 11:50 am
Sep 9, 2022 11:39 am
https://i.imgur.com/AMO6NpC.jpg
When you level up, you get 3 points of bonus to add wherever you want.
To a max of 10 at any one Ability.
OR
The GM can assign the points... I think that's an option...
Last edited September 9, 2022 11:40 am
Sep 9, 2022 11:49 am
Did I explain that correctly feanaro00?
Sep 9, 2022 11:52 am
The rule book gives the SAVE example of Intelligence vs Dexterity. A wizard trying to shoot a fireball at a goblin.

What's the Goblins Dexterity? I didn't know Goblins had Dex...
Sep 9, 2022 12:00 pm
SvanDerh says:
I don't really get the attacking part.

Do you roll to hit vs AC?
Or does the target roll defense bonus vs attackers ability?

Or both, like a save after to hit (in which case most attacks will miss for sure)
Oh, you're referring to where the Combat section says: "Alternatively, ..."
Guess I didn't need to type all that out. Maybe it was more for me than you! Hahaha

I see what you're saying now. I don't know why we would use the Monster rolling his AC vs our Strength... That seems unnecessary... A reverse "to hit"...? Why?
Last edited September 9, 2022 12:00 pm
Sep 9, 2022 1:29 pm
SvanDerh says:
I don't really get the attacking part.

Do you roll to hit vs AC?
Or does the target roll defense bonus vs attackers ability?

Or both, like a save after to hit (in which case most attacks will miss for sure)
I read through my copy of Knave and both options you mention are available, depending on how you want to play. Here is how player-facing rolls work (defense vs. attack):
Quote:
Alternatively, an attack roll can also be resolved by the defender rolling a d20 and adding their armor bonus, hoping to roll a total greater than the defense of the ability the attacker is using. If they succeed, the attack misses. If they fail, the attack hits.
So, if the attacker has a 12 STR and is attacking with a sword, the defender would roll 1d20+[armor] vs. 12

The more traditional way is to roll 1d20+[bonus] vs. target AC.

I'm fine with either option honestly. Personally, I like player-facing rolls. It puts the player in control and in many cases works pretty well with PbP games. I know it's not for everybody though.
Last edited September 9, 2022 1:33 pm
Sep 9, 2022 1:46 pm
Sarkhanmad says:
Did I explain that correctly feanaro00?
I think you did a swell job of that! Thanks.
Sep 9, 2022 1:47 pm
squid says:
SvanDerh says:
I don't really get the attacking part.

Do you roll to hit vs AC?
Or does the target roll defense bonus vs attackers ability?

Or both, like a save after to hit (in which case most attacks will miss for sure)
I read through my copy of Knave and both options you mention are available, depending on how you want to play. Here is how player-facing rolls work (defense vs. attack):
Quote:
Alternatively, an attack roll can also be resolved by the defender rolling a d20 and adding their armor bonus, hoping to roll a total greater than the defense of the ability the attacker is using. If they succeed, the attack misses. If they fail, the attack hits.
So, if the attacker has a 12 STR and is attacking with a sword, the defender would roll 1d20+[armor] vs. 12

The more traditional way is to roll 1d20+[bonus] vs. target AC.

I'm fine with either option honestly. Personally, I like player-facing rolls. It puts the player in control and in many cases works pretty well with PbP games. I know it's not for everybody though.
Great suggestion with the player-facing option. I was looking over that just a few moments ago. We may indeed go that route. I'll update the fist post here soon with a few more details.
Sep 9, 2022 2:07 pm
I made a few updates to the original post.

Combat

Advantage & Disadvantage . . . and Advantage in Combat
Sep 9, 2022 2:53 pm
Monster turn:
GM: Monster attacks Jasper with Sword.
Me: I roll 1d20+Armor Bonus.
GM: Monster cuts Jasper's head off... (I failed roll)

* So I don't need to know the Monsters strength, GM does tho!

My turn:
Me: I fire my arrow at monster. I roll 1d20+(WIS Bonus).
GM: Jasper's arrow pierces through the eye of the Monster.
Me: I roll for Damage.

So whether we are on offense or defense, we will always make the "to hit" roll.

I like that!
Last edited September 9, 2022 2:54 pm
Sep 9, 2022 2:58 pm
Sarkhanmad says:
Monster turn:
GM: Monster attacks Jasper with Sword.
Me: I roll 1d20+Armor Bonus.
GM: Monster cuts Jasper's head off... (I failed roll)

* So I don't need to know the Monsters strength, GM does tho!

My turn:
Me: I fire my arrow at monster. I roll 1d20+(WIS Bonus).
GM: Jasper's arrow pierces through the eye of the Monster.
Me: I roll for Damage.

So whether we are on offense or defense, we will always make the "to hit" roll.

I like that!
That's what I was aiming for! If it works well for everyone we will give it a go that way.
Sep 9, 2022 4:17 pm
Reaction? Morale? Surprise?

What about the section on Crits and Quality?
Do your monsters have weapon and armor quality? Do we?
Last edited September 9, 2022 4:38 pm
Sep 9, 2022 4:35 pm
Sarkhanmad says:
Monster turn:
GM: Monster attacks Jasper with Sword.
Me: I roll 1d20+Armor Bonus.
GM: Monster cuts Jasper's head off... (I failed roll)

* So I don't need to know the Monsters strength, GM does tho!

My turn:
Me: I fire my arrow at monster. I roll 1d20+(WIS Bonus).
GM: Jasper's arrow pierces through the eye of the Monster.
Me: I roll for Damage.

So whether we are on offense or defense, we will always make the "to hit" roll.

I like that!
Yep, that is the magic of player-facing rolls. And, in PbP games you can roll both your attack and defense in one post. Then it is up to the GM to decide if the defense roll applies (like if your attack killed the opponent, or something else happens). It helps keep things moving.

In fact, you can do stuff like this:

Me:
I fire my arrow at monster. I roll attack: 1d20+[WIS bonus] damage: 1d6
I roll to defend against his counter attack: 1d20+[armor bonus]

GM:
Jasper's arrow pierces through the eye of the Monster, but it manages to launch a fireball that lights Jasper on fire!
Last edited September 9, 2022 4:38 pm
Sep 9, 2022 4:44 pm
It's really a matter of preference though. We don't have to post everything at once if @feanaro00 would rather have us roll defense separately. That's totally cool too. It just gives you a lot of flexibility in how to run the game.
Sep 9, 2022 4:53 pm
squid says:
It's really a matter of preference though. We don't have to post everything at once if @feanaro00 would rather have us roll defense separately. That's totally cool too. It just gives you a lot of flexibility in how to run the game.
Yeah rolling damage for a miss seems silly, but in pbp it's kinda necessary I'm guessing...

That sounds efficient.
My turn:
Attack roll
Damage roll
Defend roll

I like it!
Last edited September 9, 2022 5:01 pm
Sep 9, 2022 4:59 pm
Wait a minute, if all 3 of us roll defense, then when it's the Monsters turn, feanaro00 may be influenced on who to attack...

That's either good if he's an awesome GM, or bad if he isn't. And both of those are subjective... ?
Last edited September 9, 2022 5:00 pm
Sep 9, 2022 5:14 pm
Yep, that's an argument for only rolling defense when required.
Sep 9, 2022 5:53 pm
Sarkhanmad says:
Reaction? Morale? Surprise?

What about the section on Crits and Quality?
Do your monsters have weapon and armor quality? Do we?
I'll handle Reaction rolls in secret.

I think we can stick to rules-as-written for Crits and Quality unless something poses an issue within the PbP format.

Maybe. :) and yes, you do! :)
Sep 9, 2022 5:53 pm
squid says:
Yep, that's an argument for only rolling defense when required.
I know it would slow things just a tad, but, I think rolling when required would be better and keep things honest. :)
Sep 9, 2022 6:40 pm
Hire henchmen/retainers someday?
Last edited September 9, 2022 6:42 pm
Sep 9, 2022 7:42 pm
Sarkhanmad says:
Hire henchmen/retainers someday?
Absolutely! I think that would be reasonable.
Sep 9, 2022 8:37 pm
Ok. That's based on Charisma, I just swapped out my 5, but 2 ain't bad either... Really happy with my rolls!
Sep 9, 2022 10:01 pm
Can I get a quick crash course on how formatting goes. Is it just Bold for talking? Normal for descriptions? And the OOC snippet for ooc..
Any colors? Italics?
Sep 10, 2022 8:53 am
I see two sheets here.

https://gamersplane.com/forums/thread/21532/

Knave and knave v2

Any recommendations which to use?
Sep 10, 2022 11:53 am
SvanDerh says:
I see two sheets here.

https://gamersplane.com/forums/thread/21532/

Knave and knave v2

Any recommendations which to use?
Well, I made Knave V2... So I'll recommend that!

The other one is more simple. (No dice rollers)

Instructions for using the templates
Last edited September 10, 2022 11:56 am
Sep 10, 2022 2:50 pm
Sarkhanmad says:
Can I get a quick crash course on how formatting goes. Is it just Bold for talking? Normal for descriptions? And the OOC snippet for ooc..
Any colors? Italics?
I'm open to suggestions here. It seems that GamersPlane has a good selection of tools to format things.

I lean towards if it makes sense then go with it, but I understand the desire to have it organized and uniform.

So, keep in-character speech between Quotations. I don't think you have to necessarily describe what a character is thinking, as a better way may be to role play via actions and words? Keep OOC within the channel within the formatting of the "OOC" button. Other than that, I don't have an requirements, at least not yet. As long as we can keep prose, speech, and OOC separate we should be ok.
Sep 10, 2022 3:09 pm
"Thanks. That makes sense." Wonders what the hell prose means...
OOC:
Gonna have to Google that one, you fancy talker you...

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