Cairn: Session Zero

Wherein we chat about what we want out of the game, lines and veils, the implied setting, etc.

One thing I like less about Cairn 2e vs. the original version of the game is that there’s a lot more implied setting in the random chargen tables and the archetypes.

Who all has the game? I’ll share what’s needed, but author Yochai Gal has provided the PDF for free. Curious to hear people’s takes on the (fairly whimsical) implied setting. Dark, miserabilist OSR this is not.

Also curious to know what OSR adventures people have either already played through, or have interest in…

Hi! I own both editions of the game. And yeah there’s a lot of setting baked into the random tables and archetypes. But I kind of like it! Just like I like OSE and Dolmenwood. I like that fey, folklore flavor. I’m fine with not using it in our game though and making our own setting, too.

As for lines and veils, mine are mostly covered by the site’s rules. So for lines, no real world racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism. Fantasy racism is ok. I also want to veil harm to young children.

For this game, I’m hoping to have an OSR experience and get to know Cairn. Looking forward to it!

I agree with @Drgwen on lines & veils. I'd add a veil for over sexualized content.

I have the PDF and I am good with altering the setting however you see fit.

I've not run or played many OSR adventures, so it's probably a safe bet I haven't seen whatever you're considering if you're looking at a published adventure.

I actually sort of like the setting as is described in the wardens guide. It's mostly the character creation results that bother me. They feel much too goofy and out of place for the setting. The world generation tables in the wardens guide also tripped me up while I was trying them out. They really do not produce something that fits the implied setting very well.

It's probably going to be fine with me. I would have some backgrounds that I would be interested in playing, assuming we play the setting as is. But if we want do to something else I am on board with that.

The previously stated lines & veils work for me as well!

I've gathered the Core Rules on cairnrpg.com. I'll check for the PDF as well.

For the setting, I do like that it's not so dark, though that can be fun as well. I am happy with making a new setting or fleshing out the original one.

So far, I have tried Mausritter and Tales of Argosa. I'm still interested in Mork Borg one day as it seems very popular, but want to focus on learning Cairn 2e for now as it is one I see very often referenced on Reddit. I think I'll start checking out the ones everyone has listed as favorites in the OOC thread as well!

Nothing to add on lines and veils.

I’m open to a more whimsical setting, but happy with a darker or more realistic twist if that’s the preference. I think the only specific OSR module I’ve run is Winters Daughter (takes place in Dolmenwood) - so you have a pretty free hand from my side.

The Symbaroum setting does something interesting with their dark forest, by having it actively resisting human exploitation of its resources and plunder of its ruins through corrupted beasts and such - a bit like in Princess Mononoke. Curious if others would like to add some naturalist conflict like this on top of what Cairn has to offer.

I kind of read the Cairn setting like that. With the forests being sentient things and gates to the roots not being closable once opened. There is a vaguely sciencey religion that is fighting the more folksy faiths. It kind of reminds me a bit of Thief the Dark Project, but set in the countryside rather than a city.

Alright, catching up here too… (And still on vacation, then have that con to hit, but I think it’ll be good to just keep the conversation flowing.)

A Few Things…
Lines & Veils
Sounds like we’re all aligned.

Lines: Sexual assault; real-world racism, homophobia, transphobia, sexism. Tropey fantasy discrimination okay if handled the right way.
Veils: Harm to young children, overly sexualized content. Graphic torture.

Vald (The Default Cairn 2e Setting) & Character Creation
Sounds like we’re all basically on board here as well, though I agree with Aline that some of the chargen stuff doesn’t quite mesh as well as it might with the setting. I say let’s go for the default setting, and tweak any character backgrounds, traits, bonds, omens or equipment that we feel doesn’t fit.

For those that are pretty new to the OSR, there are a couple of schools of thought regarding characters: one is that you should basically roll 3d6 ‘down the line’ (in order) and then just pick as class and play that PC. Who they are will emerge through play. The other, typified by games like Into the Odd, Knave and Cairn, give the players lots of quirky little bits to grab onto — personality traits, looks, debts, etc. This latter approach is what we’ll be using for this game, but one thing I always offer up in games where you’re presented with a bunch of random tables at character generation is the option to choose the entry you’re most interested in, or to roll twice and select the more interesting option.

For the record, my normal mode of play for the OSR is much darker, bloodier, and nastier. I love Dolmenwood and the whole dangerous fae vibe that also resonates in Vald, but my games are usually light on whimsy and heavier on difficult situations that require difficult decision-making. (Symbaroum is a favorite setting of mine btw.) I’ll shift gears a bit here and try to follow the spirit of what Gal is laying down…

Oh, and on an adventure — I want to see who the characters are / how they come out… then I’ll pick or come up with something.

Sounds great! And I’m 100% cool with random rolling, even the weird quirks. I reserve the right to veto something if it makes me uncomfortable, but I tend to play my OSR characters in the same way I might drive a stolen car — take them in a joyride and, if I crash, that’s all part of the fun. I am good with dark or whimsical as well, but I want my darkness to be interesting and creative, not dark for grim darkness’ sake. I don’t play games that are like pizza cutters — all edge and no point.

Looking forward to playing!

I think we’re fine, but keep me honest — I like the pizza cutter analogy. I’m no edgelord, but with some very notable exceptions (Superhero games, space opera, etc.) I generally far per my fantasy low, grounded, realistic and dirty.

I'm excited to play!

I have rolled up a completely, 100% random character with mostly dismal stats -- a Strength of 5, only 6 starting gold, etc. And a... Rill Runner??? Sure, ok I'll give it a shot. But I draw the line at BALD. No, she WILL have hair. Sorry not sorry!

Sounds good, will have a look when I can.

Also, I’ll post a character sheet in the next few days for everyone to use / submit…

Oh, and if you haven’t seen yet — I’ve put individual chargen threads up for each of you.

Appreciate the guidance to character creation and the wiggle room. Curious, for inventory slots, do they include equipped inventory like the armor and weapon? Take your time on the character sheet since you are still quite busy.

They do, and I will be upfront in telling you my experiences with Cairn 2e suggest that the inventory system is broken. Or at a minimum, not that fun. Let’s try it RAW, and adjust if things look really wonky.

The inventory system is one thing about Cairn that I've been curious to see in action. Adding Fatigue to inventory seems a little odd to me, but I've not experienced it in play.

I think the system itself is fine if a touch fiddly — more fun live than in PbP. The issue is that there aren’t enough slots, slot 10 filled makes you encumbered, and you cannot carry more!

I've heard one hack of this is to say that items worn and wielded don't count toward Inventory. But I am 100% fine with using it as written as well!

Indeed — it’s easy enough to fix (thought that hack circumvents the fact that you have specific hand and body slots), but let’s see how it all feels when the PCs are pulled together.

One thing -- for character art, see the great PC pic Gwen has come up with in her thread. Definitely want to try and stick with black and white art to maintain the OSR vibe if possible...

A sheet to use... click "create character" at the top right.

Didn't realize the inventory management had so much debate around it, but sounds good to start with RAW and go from there.

All right, submitted Sable the Prowler with black and white avatar. Hopefully that fits in with everyone's, but if not, I'll try to look for another pic.

Even with a brand new character, my inventory is almost full.

Also, I took the liberty of picking most of the character traits. I hope you don't mind.

OK submitted a sheet for the character I rolled up, Wren. Except for the name and gender, and opting to be only partially bald instead of completely bald, she is 100% random.

Alright, that's three! There's a chance I'll be able to look then over before the weekend, but... well, my time is diminishing! I'll see what I can do, otherwise we'll do a group review next week.

Got mine submitted too! With 4 str and his two-handed sword, Gann has high hopes for a long and successful adventuring career as a Marchguard!

You know you can swap two of the stats, right?

I saw that in the rules, but from what Harrigan said about the procedure I thought we were just going down the line.

STR isn’t needed for attacks, so I think it’s okay. Just means I’m gonna die very soon - which is fine too.

Just popping in from the con I’m attending. Loooong day tomorrow, but hoping for some posting on GP Sunday.

Sudo — swapping two stats is fine.

Hah perfect, I will definitely be swapping them then!

I am going to roll up a totaly random character today. For those who used AI to generate a character image, do you mind sharing your prompt?

Right on, Squid. I’m almost through my busy period, finishing up at the con late tonight…

Then we’ll give this puppy the attention it deserves and get going!

Alright! Here’s what I’m seeing…

Characters
Aline: Nessa the Foundling
Age: 27
Heritage: Rumored to have faeblood in their veins
Once Traveled With: a troupe of entertainers who vanished overnight.
Bond: A letter that might prove their heritage…

Drgwen: Wren the Rill Runner
Age: 28
Known For: Watercraft skills, transporting delicate goods, songs and tales
Bond: An old bark-bound journal

quillted: Sable the Prowler
Age: 36
Once Hunted: A Hollow Wolf. He took pity on the thing; it now serves him.
Bond: Once freed a Naiad from a choked stream. Possesses Silver Moss as a result.

SudoDragon: Gann the Marchguard
Age: 22
Oath to the Marchguard: Sworn because family lost everything. Carries a Marchguard Compass.
Bond: Once freed a Naiad from a choked stream. Possesses Silver Moss as a result.

Squid: Rowan the Greenwise
Age: 14 24
How the Wood has failed him: He was once poisoned by something in it.
Bond: Haunted by a beast of the forest he let die.

Do I have these summaries about right? Next I’ll look at trying some things together, rationalizing a couple of angles and generally drawing some connections between background elements.

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The Group Omen
Songbirds in the wood have fallen silent of late. A spectral figure has been sighted; it gazes longingly from a distance.

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Inventory
One or two folks had questions about the inventory — specifically about weather weapons and armor need to be accounted for… and they door. So indeed, those ten slots go quick. Like I said a while back, my experiences with 2e lead me to believe the inventory / encumbrance system is broken or at the very least not terribly fun. Let’s see how it shakes out for these five PCs and we’ll adjust if need be.

Looks good to me so far!

I had a typo for Rowan's age. He's 24, not 14.

Off to the general store to buy some armor to hopefully survive the first battle! :)

Alright, I’m planning to run Black Wyrm of Brandonsford, a modern classic OSR module by Chance Dudinack, one of my favorite adventure creators. Let me know if you’ve already run or played in this, otherwise…

The game will take place in Vald, and center on the small and remote village of Brandonsford. It is deep in a gnarled, hoary wood, and most easily reached by pole and barge, using the wide, shallow and slow-winding river it sits upon. The Woods north of the village are known to be old, and are rumored to contain ruins, faerie circles and old places of power.

Normally a pleasant if humble and slightly back-woods place, Brandonsford has a problem: a monster prowls the woods. People are missing, there have been a number of deaths, and there are rumors of other things creeping through the forest now that the fearful villagers have holed up and shut their gates. Reportedly, the Marchguard has been dispatched to help, but its unclear when that contingent might arrive — and as a result, the local Reeve has offered a bounty of one thousand golden coins!

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So if we’re heading in this overall direction, I’ll probably adjust the Omen to reflect a monster rather than a spectral figure.

Then, we should look at tweaks and connections with the PCs. Here are some stray ideas, but please let me know what you think:

Nessa: perhaps headed to Brandonsford because it’s close to the meeting place named in the letter?

Rowan: Might know Nessa, and be their traveling companion.

Wren: probably knows the river well and me be their transport for the other PCs. Might have more of a vested interest in investigating what’s going on because they have some goods to transfer to a caravan going north… which is missing.

Gann has been dispatched to join other Marchguards… and finds the others have not yet arrived.

Sable comes for the monster-hunting coin.

Wild idea: Are Gann and Sable brothers or cousins? Having the same bond is something we can perhaps leverage. Did that happen in their youth? (We can adjust ages to put them closer together easily enough.) Might be a neat story once the family turns to ruin and one of them becomes a Prowler while the other joins up with the Marchguard.

Like I said — just some thoughts, not married to any of this. Cairn is a little different than most OSR where you’re playing to discover who you are… character generation produced a *lot* of stuff to tie into. Might be fun to lean into old friendships, old flames, crushes, siblings, cousins, etc.

Ah, cool, and makes a little more sense. And if I’ve neglected to say it, indeed, coins can be spent at the armory, markets, general provisioners, etc.

Potential Group Omen
Songbirds in the woods around Brandonsford have fallen silent of late. A caravan from the north is missing. Hunters searching for the thing rumored to be responsible have not returned…

Couple of other little things:

-I’m going to go through your sheets and make them consistent. STR, DEX and WIL should all be in the 8 /8 format since those score can get damaged, and have have maxes. (It’s Current / Max)

-If an item is Bulky it takes up two inventory slots.

-If an item is in your backpack rather than in one of your hands or on your body, it might take a round to retrieve it, or perhaps a DEX save.

-Coins of up to 100 in count can be kept in a pouch in your ‘Petty Items’ area. Otherwise, sacks of 100 coins take up a slot.

Nice, you mean before we start? Mind if I buy a helmet and modify my sheet to reflect the purchase?
I was thinking something similar as soon as I saw we had the same bond. With 14 years between us, Sable could easily be Gann’s uncle. Perhaps the younger brother of my mother Bala? This way he need not be personally wrapped up in Gann’s family ruin, but still affected. They would have saved the Naiad about ten years ago when Sable was looking after the twelve year old Gann.

If we do have a connection like this, Gann might inform Sable of jobs when he hears about them through the Marchguard - possibly what happened this time around. How’s this sounding @quilltid ?

First — yep. You can spent the coins you generate during chargen now, before we start, to get more equipment and weapons and whatnot.

Second — I’ll let you two work out the specifics, Sudo, but those are indeed along the lines I was thinking. I think the different in age is 12 years, but it’s still kind of a neat older / younger set. Maybe the youngun found the Naiad and ran to get the elder…

@SudoDragon That sounds great what you guys have come up with for the bond between Gann and Sable. That makes sense Gann would inform Sable about the job if they already knew each other, especially as family. Sounds good about Sable being Uncle Sable, younger brother of Bala. When he was still green as a Prowler, he stayed with the family for a bit and was watching Gann who discovered the Naiad. Unsure of what Gann had found, he waded into the water to help when he felt something snake around his boot. Frightened by what turned out to be the Naiad's hair, he inadvertently rescued the Naiad by pulling it along and out while trying to escape the waters.

…pulling her out, yowling, by the hair! Heroic! :)

Dig it, and easy enough to flash out in play. As you establish background facts and whatnot as we go, I recommend just making notes on your sheet.

Never heard of it, so I'm good!
This works for me. @Aline, maybe Nessa and Rowan helped each other out of a sticky situation of some kind and bonded as a result? Maybe they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and worked together to successfully get out of whatever it was.

I suppose that could work. Maybe the simplest option is to have everyone start out as passengers on Wrens boat? That way we do not need to have some deep connection between the characters but they would all have had a chance to get acquainted?

I think that’s a good idea!

We can certainly do that, but Cairn is a little different from some OSR. Usually you say, "You're an adventuring party. You've done this before and you'll do it again."

But in Cairn there are all these additional motivations, hooks, connections. There's a real possibility people might want to go in different directions based on what is on their sheet, and that's not why we're all here.

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Having said that, the idea was indeed to have you all arrive by river to start the game.

Everyone about ready? Would love to start this week.

Brewing it up shortly. Thanks for being patient as I got busy through the middle part of the month!